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<!-- you can have any number of categories here --> [[Category:Chimp444 (pseudonym)]] [[Category:Libertarians Misunderstand Government]] [[Category:Voluntary]] [[Category:Coercion]] <!-- 1 URL must be followed by >= 0 Other URL and Old URL and 1 End URL.--> {{URL | url = https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughLibertarianSpam/comments/54d0yw/the_big_lie_of_libertarianism/}} <!-- {{Other URL | url = }} --> <!-- {{Old URL | url = }} --> {{End URL}} {{DES | des = "The big lie libertarians make is that membership in the State and any collective mutual advantage insurance agreements it establishes is not voluntary, when everybody knows that there is a market in State memberships, and if one does not like to be a member of the UK for instance one can shop around and say purchase membership in the Monaco Principality." | show=}} <!-- insert wiki page text here --> <!-- DPL has problems with categories that have a single quote in them. Use these explicit workarounds. --> <!-- otherwise, we would use {{Links}} and {{Quotes}} --> {{List|title=The big lie of libertarianism|links=true}} {{Quotations|title=The big lie of libertarianism|quotes=true}} {{Text | Ultimately taxes are as voluntary as employment until we implement something like this: http://www.enlightenmenteconomics.com/blog/index.php/2016/08/markets-and-humans/#comment-550687 Why? The big lie libertarians make is that membership in the State and any collective mutual advantage insurance agreements it establishes is not voluntary, when everybody knows that there is a market in State memberships, and if one does not like to be a member of the UK for instance one can shop around and say purchase membership in the Monaco Principality. Having UK state membership and paying the related fees to be a member of the related insurance schemes is a voluntary exchange of mutual advantage, and if one does not like that bargain, they are entirely free to buy a different bargain from some other state membership fee provider. Libertarians are like hipsters who think coffee at Starbucks is too expensive and they don’t want high prices for a cool cafe atmosphere; they are entirely free to buy they coffee somewhere else, instead of arguing that Starbucks "infringe their liberty" to have a cheap coffee in a cheaper looking place. Libertarianism is about freedom of contract, and that does not include the effective right to be offered a deal one likes; it only includes the legal right to refuse any deal one dislikes. The libertarian answer to someone complaining that their job does not pay them a living wage is "if you don't like that, resign, nobody is forcing you to work for a wage you don't feel adequate - "if nobody is offering you a wage that you find adequate, tough luck sunshine". In a similar way, as long as a state does not forbid leaving it, staying means accepting a freely entered into bargain, whatever the terms are. Self ownership includes the right to do a deal with the state that includes giving it an equity stake in it. If you don't like a state offering you a deal involving an equity position in your self-ownership, "leave it and find a better deal, and if no state offers you a better deal, tough luck sunshine" is the only possible libertarian answer. Membership in a state, as long as leaving it is allowed, is a voluntary bargain of mutual advantage. So from a libertarian perspective paying UK taxes is entirely voluntary - people have chosen not to pay them, and that is working out fine. They have chosen to pay taxes somewhere else where they think they get a better bargain. Paying taxes in the UK is a freely entered contract, where you get the benefits of UK citizenship, and you pay a yearly membership free. Many in the third world would pay much for this. There is no slavery -- you work to pay the membership fee for a housing association that you have freely chosen to be a member of. Just as working for Sports Direct: you think that their wages are too low and working conditions too bad? Then find a better paying job, working at Sports Direct is a free choice, and you can quite anytime you want. There is a long queue outside of people eager to take your job. You think that the UK "housing association" is not offering good value for its membership fee? Nobody is forcing you to be a member, you can always quit it, sell your flat/house there and buy one in another "housing association". TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. I also don't buy the libertarian position that where you were born shouldn't limit where you can go. Unfortunately that fails on the logical point that we can't all fit into the same square mile in London. So there is a limit, and if there is a limit you either manage it, or you leave it to 'natural forces' or 'market forces.' Indeed freedom of migration can be a gross violation of liberty, because it implies the ability to force a deal on an unwilling party, in the case of an immigrant that wants a deal to live in a particular state. Libertarianism is about the right to refuse deals, not the right to impose them on others. So libertarianism includes the freedom to refuse an offer of membership of a state by an individual, but also the freedom of a state's members to refuse an offer of membership by any other individual. So libertarians can't coherently oppose the right to emigrate (once all existing membership dues are paid, of course), but they must oppose coercing existing members of a state to accept new members, as under libertarian principles nobody has the right to force others to offer them a bargain, any bargain or a specific bargain. The “libertarian” logic is that freely entered mutually advantageous insurance agreements (such as universal healthcare) should be forbidden, or breaking them should be permitted, because the only liberty they want to permit is that of individual risk tasking. That is not about liberty, it is about the Chaotic Evil version of social Darwinism, which just sucks. }}
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